Ep: 115 - What Are You Willing to Do to Stop Playing Small in Business With Gill Moakes
What are you willing to do to stop playing small?
That’s the provocative question Gill Moakes asked herself—and it completely changed the trajectory of her coaching business. In this episode of Scaling Expertise, I welcome Gill to talk about what it really takes to grow a coaching practice into a business that makes real money and real impact—without selling your soul to the algorithm.
Gill shares her journey from corporate to virtual assistant to powerhouse business coach, how personal loss pushed her to take bold leaps, and how she codified her one-on-one coaching into a scalable, step-by-step framework. We also dive deep into mindset shifts around “playing big,” pricing as women, and protecting your IP in the age of AI.
If you’ve been on the fence about growing your business in a way that feels aligned and expansive, this conversation is your permission slip.
Key Takeaways:
Redefine Playing Big: Scaling doesn’t always mean going bigger—it means getting clearer and braver about what success looks like for you.
Codify Your Coaching Journey: Turning your client experience into a step-by-step framework isn’t just helpful—it’s the foundation of a scalable business.
Speak Like a Human: Ditch the coach speak. Messaging that resonates starts with the language your ideal clients actually use.
Protect What You’ve Built: Your ideas, frameworks, and voice are assets. Own and protect your IP before someone else does.
Raise the Bar (and the Price): Playing small often hides behind low pricing. Charge like you believe in the value you create.
Resources Mentioned:
🔗 Visit Gill Moakes’ website
🔗 Book a call for The Coaching Business Academy
Charity: Microloan Foundation
Connect with Erin to learn how to Turn Your Expertise into Scalable Recurring Revenue.
Erin's LinkedIn Page: www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/
Scaling Expertise YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/@Scalingexpertise
More About Our Guest
Gill Moakes
Gill is an award-winning, international business coach who specialises in helping great coaches build phenomenal businesses. Gill is the founder of The Coaching Business Academy, the co-founder of Unapologetic Retreats and the host of the Heads Together podcast where she delivers a weekly dose of entrepreneurial real talk to coaches on the grow.
Find Our Guest
Music credit: Paphos by Mountaineer
A Team Dklutr production
Blog Transcript:
Erin Austin: Hello everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Scaling Expertise, where we talk to experts who have scaled their expertise and also have tips about how you can scale yours. So this week I have a very exciting guest, Jill Mos. Welcome, Jill.
Gill Moakes: Hey, thank you so much for having me, Erin.
Erin Austin: I'm very excited about today's episode.
We, had a little pre-talk that's got me really, excited, but we'll get into all that. Before we get into all that, will you introduce yourself to the audience? Of
Gill Moakes: course. Thank you. like you say, I'm Jill Mos. I'm based in the UK just outside of London. but I work with clients globally and I help ambitious coaches to grow outstandingly fabulous businesses.
I help them make more money, more impact, and I help them have more satisfaction in what they're doing because I help them get clients who are really aligned. With their values, the way they think about the world. and that's what I do, and I do that via the Coaching Business Academy.
Erin Austin: Fantastic. tell us about your journey from where you started to where you are today.
A Journey Sparked by Loss
Gill Moakes: Oh my goodness. I come from a corporate background. and I did the sort of slightly unexpected, even though I'd been yearning after it for years, escape from corporate, started up my own business after I had a personal loss. I lost my husband to cancer. And there's nothing like something like that to make you think, you know what?
Life really is too short Yes. To do anything other than the thing you really want to be doing. I made a really a quick decision, I quit my job without anything to go to, so it was quite, ugh. It was definitely a let's not bother with a plan B, and I decided to set up as a virtual assistant, mostly not because I had a burning urge to be a va.
It was more because I just couldn't think of anything else that someone would pay me for. And I thought, I know myself way around a spreadsheet. I'd worked in insurance. I just didn't feel like I had that much else to offer. but it turns out I was a good va. I was very organized. I am very organized and I was really good at helping people get organized in their businesses.
so I promoted myself from that to online business manager because. There is no better training ground, I think for, going into what I'm in now, which is business coaching than doing that operational support side. Because you see the insides of all these different businesses and so I was able to learn on the go all of the different processes, the backends of all these businesses, the marketing, the finance, and I just got this really great bird's eye view from being inside other people's businesses.
It wasn't too long, after that, that I promoted myself again and each time I did it by just changing my email signature. By the way, this is like my serial method of self-promotion is changing my email title. I do the same thing. Yeah, oh, that sounds really good. Oh, that sounds so good.
Okay. that's what I am now business coach. Brilliant. I should clarify that. I have since gone on to get a. ICF accreditation in coaching, but certainly I didn't at first, I just took what I knew and thought, you know what? I've learned a lot about what it really does take to grow a business. I can help other people do that.
So that was how I started in coaching. And I didn't really have a particular niche. I've always worked with women, but I worked with women from lots of different walks of life. And I think that happened because of that background in working with different, kinds of businesses. and I really loved coaching, and now I know that it's just, it's more than a job to me.
It's just who I am. I'm a coach and that's who I am. I wanted to really help the people that I could see. Were coming behind me, and they were doing their coach training. And coach training is brilliant. It teaches you how to be a really great coach, and I don't teach my clients that at all.
That's like the non-negotiable, that has to be in place before they come to me in what I do now, but. What I was noticing was that these coaches were having great coach training, but it wasn't teaching them how to actually run a coaching business. It wasn't teaching them how to get coaching clients.
Erin Austin:
Gill Moakes: It wasn't teaching them how to market their business in a way that felt okay to them and didn't have them. Selling their soul to Mark Zuckerberg or whatever. he's not a listener, is he? I don't think so.
So really that was how the, I decided to niche down and I started teaching coaches. So then it was a lot of my private clients were coaches and I was coaching them to do the things that I'd done to build my coaching practice and. Then I suppose that's where the scaling story starts really is from there.
And it's not that this isn't, a long way back. This is just towards the latter part of last year, I actually made that decision and thought, you know what? I could really package up what I teach. I was starting to think, you know what, this isn't so much coaching. Actually this is teaching.
I'm teaching people what I've done. And I'm just distilling that into lessons and workbooks and, I could really package this up And do this in a one to many setting. and then the Coaching Business Academy was born, is exactly what I do inside there, is teach really great coaches.
They have to already be a great coach. But if they are a great coach, then that's where they come to learn how to build a great business.
Erin Austin: That's fantastic. You said a couple of things I wanna back up to.
One is, you mentioned the fact that you can be really great at what you do, an expert, whether you're a coach.
And I also see this with lawyers, accountants, and other experts where they know their expertise, where they don't know how to run a business around their expertise. Yes. And you see this again and again. I mean it's, law school schools are famously known for not. Teaching lawyers how to run law firms like these are Right.
Completely different skill sets. And I imagine the same works with accountants and other professionals and for coaches, like learning your expertise it's a different skillset to be. The runner, the owner of a business and running a business as opposed to just practicing your expertise.
Gill Moakes: And client acquisition is the hardest part of any business.and especially if you are an expert business, so if you're an expert coach, lawyer, accountant, it's That part's the easy bit for you.
That's not the hard bit That's right. The hard bit is client acquisition.
Erin Austin: Yes, and for me, the organization, I'm one of those, yes. I'm one of those lawyers that are like, gimme the big idea. Don't gimme the details.
Gill Moakes: See, pros and cons are both pros and cons are both because you are probably not the person like I am that has to sit and color code a spreadsheet, yes.
Till 11 o'clock at night,
Erin Austin: I make a terrible contracts manager. Like you don't ever want me anywhere near that. so I love on your website you have, I'm ready to play big. And so that gets us to the question of scaling. So first tell me what your definition of scale or scaling is.
'cause everyone seems to have a different definition. So what's yours?
Gill Moakes: Yeah, I think that's a really good question, first of all, I would say, I think for me there's a difference between playing big and scaling, because I suppose playing big for me is about not tethering yourself to any preconceived idea you had of what might be available for you.
So playing big isn't necessarily about scaling, it's not necessarily about growing. it sometimes can actually be about being brave enough to downshift to the thing that you really want. Sometimes. That could be your version of playing big. For me, I want it all. I want both. I wanna play big.
I wanna scale. I wanna earn lots of money. I wanna help lots of people. But I don't think that has to be the definition of it for everybody. and I think being able to just say that unapologetically is something that's taken a while for me. I always felt like there was, and I think this is something we, I think we grow up with.
I think from the family I came from, it was almost a bit, you don't be greedy, don't ask for more than your share or Don't be reckless. Always put money away for a rainy day. All of those kind of stories, it is taken a while, but now I really don't see any limits and so scaling my business feels like a real natural step and I don't feel like I'm so far the other side, I don't think I can say I have now scaled my business.
I think I'm scaling my business. I think like launching the academy was definitely really the first. Step for me In scaling the business. So it's almost like I'm in that phase at the moment. And it's feeling really good.
Erin Austin: So then your definition of being ready to play big is a shift
I feel like the mindset question comes up more with women than it does with men. is that your experience and what do you think that comes up? Absolutely. Yeah.
Gill Moakes: I completely agree with you.
Erin Austin: And that just some of our, culture and how we're brought up to be more, humble,
Why Women Struggle to Play Bigger
Gill Moakes: Yeah. I don't think it was ever okay. Mm-hmm. For us to want as much as the men wanted. Mm-hmm. I think they've always, I think men have always been very comfortable in being ambitious mm-hmm. In wanting more, In, having big goals. and going after them. mainly because the patriarchy is set up in such a way that they were able to.
and I think it, that's different for women. I think for women it's almost do we dare Could we really ask for that much? women are more likely to set that internal bar
Erin Austin: At the level they think is available for men. Men are much less aware of any kind of internal bar.
Yeah. this takes me back a while from back in my corporate days and where there was, a. Legal department. I was in the film business at the time and we're all kind of equals and there were men and women in there. And one of the men, like he went and he demanded a raise because of his family.
and I'm like, wait a minute, I'm doing the same thing he does, but he gets I've got a wife and kids, I'm like, wait a minute. What just happened? And was
Gill Moakes: he wrong? Ask or were you wrong for not asking? Which is I That's
Erin Austin: exactly
Gill Moakes: right.
Erin Austin: Exactly right.
And I've never forgotten that. It's just like stuff Yeah. that's how they get more money.
Gill Moakes: he had no qualms about just going and saying, Hey, gimme more money. I want more money. That's exactly
Erin Austin: right. That's exactly right. Yeah.
Gill Moakes: And as women, I just think we find that
Erin Austin:
Gill Moakes: Harder.
Erin Austin: Well, of scaling and your academy, so let's talk about intellectual property. And so how did that, you had your one-on-one services. Like how did you develop the academy? Was that part of Constantly having the same questions come up, the same concerns, the same solutions for your clients.
Is that part of building your academy and how did you think about IP in that circumstance?
Gill Moakes: Yeah, so I had noticed that there was a journey that I went on with every client, and I didn't really intentionally design it at the beginning when I was coaching one-to-one, but when I sat down to start thinking about how can I teach people to do what I've done, and I went back and thought to myself, what have I done?
Scaling Starts with a Signature Framework
I realized that I was already coaching business owners to do what I'd done. On a one-to-one basis, I realized, I look back at all the different coaches that I'd worked with on a one-to-one basis, and it was a linear, it always started with their vision. It always went on to go setting goals.
It always went onto their brand. It always then went onto their business model and then their marketing, and then their sales, and then their client delivery. So there was this. Linear. it was a step-by-step process. And one of the things I teach because it's all very meta.
Because I realized that, that needs to be in the academy. Mm-hmm. People need to understand that they need a signature coaching framework. Yes. Which is the thing that they are repeatedly taking their clients through. And once they have that framework, They can take that and apply it to lots of different offers.
You can have lots of different offers, but that kind of spine of the framework stays the same. Mm-hmm.once you've unearthed what that is, Once I realized that, then it became easy for me to say, those steps, those kind of steps along that linear, those are the modules for the academy.
That's exactly how I need to teach this, because if I'm gonna be true to really genuinely teaching people to do things the way I've done them. ' cause I've never once said, join the academy and I'll teach you everything there is to know about growing a business. What I do say is join the academy.
I'll tell you everything I know about growing my business. It's a very different thing, So if you or someone who to grow your coaching business via just very extreme use of social media and paid ads, I'm not gonna teach you. I'm not gonna deliver that. 'cause that's not how I grew my business.
My business grew through relationship marketing and Right. definitely a focus on that rather than on any social media, for example. In terms of the ip, I think we're probably, if you were marking me, you'd be giving me a must. Try harder right now.
Erin Austin: Oh, what's going on? But I have had your
Protecting Your IP in the Age of Scaling and AI
Gill Moakes: voice in my head so many times.
Good. I have had your voice. Yeah, I have had your voice in my head and I've been like. Oh, I am not protecting this in the way I should be. I've always had quite a generous approach to anything I've created. So I've always shared pretty freely And I've often said to clients, Hey, take it.
Use it as a template, And that's really been my style. Which is okay or have been okay. When I was in my private coaching practice, I don't think it's okay now. Now I'm scaling, I'm getting it. I think it's taken till I got to now to the scaling part for me to.
Get this and to really take, things I've learned from you and the podcast, and really understand it in terms of what it means. So it's definitely something that is on my immediate horizon, is making sure I'm taking the right steps to protect this now. and I'm really aware of it.
things like you if you are very kindly come and, talk to, my, students and alumni because I'm so conscious. This is something that is not my area of expertise. And I think that's really important is that I recognize that it's something I need to work on.
Erin Austin: I'll say that you're probably not doing as badly as you think you are and that, when the fact that you have basically codified your process, that in and of itself.
For text your intellectual property, right as soon as you put it down. When you get it out of your head and put it down in, modules, workbooks, exercises, all those things when you put them down in writing and concrete form and they're yours and they're original. You own those things when you do that.
And so there's a formality of, copyright registration, but that does not mean that you don't. Own them own just because you haven't registered them. so I'm guessing you're doing much better than you think you are, and as far as sharing it, the fact that we share. Our knowledge, through podcasts, lots of free right through podcasts.
Sure. Through resources on our websites, there are all sorts of ways that we share our intellectual property for free. That doesn't mean we're giving it away for people to do whatever they want to with it. That means they get to use it in their businesses to help them. However we intended it to help them doesn't mean they can.
Take it and resell it doesn't mean they can take it and put it into their own courses. You still are the owner of it, even if you are, publishing it for free. So
Gill Moakes: that is very reassuring to know. I it's so interesting because I'm not sure I probably wasn't very protected when I just had the odd workbook here and there, or I just had the odd, most of it was in my head the way I took clients on that journey.
So that wouldn't of course, have been protected. But so you are right and at least now I do have it all documented and it is in a Program framework That's Quite good to know. I still think I probably could try harder to understand it a little bit more.
Yeah. Especially because of, with AI and that kind of thing. there's just so many muddy waters around it that I know I get a little confused about, and I think some of my students do too.
Erin Austin: Yeah. we do, you know what's interesting about AI protection and people worry about.
Some bad actor coming along and stealing their ip, but mostly it's how are we actually giving people permission to use it? And when you talk about ai, understanding how the platforms that we are using that have an AI functionality, what. They have to use your data, so we need to be aware of when we're putting it into chat, GPT, can they keep using this?
We need to know that if we are using Otter AI to take notes during our calls. Do they have the right to use it? The answer is yes. And so making sure that we are aware of what platforms and what rights they have to use it, that's the biggest, most important issue with ai. Understanding what the terms of use are. So you know, if that's issue, isn't
Gill Moakes: it. It's knowing it so that when you use it, then you're using it in that full acknowledgement That's right. Of what can or can't happen with it's Do you know what something you said then, just made me realize something though?
when I think about ai, I'm always thinking about chat GPT and stuff that Chat GPT creates or The prompts. I give chat to GPT. I just suddenly realized, you just mentioned tools that use ai. Yes. Of course Otter, things like that, but also things like Canva. Yeah, that's right. And I'm just thinking, oh my goodness.
So for a lot of people canva's the ultimate, creative tool. And they think they're creating something That's Right. Very original. But I suppose there is that kind of possibility isn't there? That if, because Canva has ai.
Erin Austin: I mean, it's interesting because there was a time when people would sneak AI into a productivity tool without telling you, but now every time they add AI functionality, you get an email like we've just added an AI assistant.
Yes. And then when that happens to a tool that you're using, I got one from Clickup, so Clickup has added this. And if you have client. Confidential information and whatever tool you're using, you wanna know what they're now doing with all that information that you have stored in there.
So yeah, it's not just the chat GPEs, it's not the actively putting something into one of these platforms. Yeah,
Gill Moakes: yeah. It's
Erin Austin: just using stuff you've always used.
Gill Moakes: you know what, that's interesting. So with the academy. It's built out inside Kajabi. Kajabi makes a big deal now of when you go to set up a new program or a course or something like that inside of Kajabi, it gives you this option of putting in a bit about what your course is about, and then it will pre-populate modules and all of the information and things inside there.
And I've never used that because it's really generic.
Erin Austin:
Gill Moakes: That makes me think, how many people out there think they're creating something very original with their course and actually it could be duplicated so many times.
Erin Austin: Yes, yes. And as they add these. Functions, their terms.
Sometimes the terms of use aren't catching up. Like they literally have just added it. And if you go to their website and look at their terms they're from five years ago, there's the exact same terms they've had. no, you need to make sure that, you understand how your information is being used.
So, let's talk about, what is coming up? What's new and exciting that's happening?
Gill Moakes: What's new and exciting? I tell you what, one thing that's new and exciting that you might be interested but you're not, 'cause you are over the other side of the pond to me.
I'm going to the podcast show. Ah, so I have a podcast as well. so I'm really like trying to. know, fall back in love with my podcast a little bit at the moment. How long have you had your
Erin Austin: podcast?
Gill Moakes: three years. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Three years now. And I shouldn't say fall back in love with it 'cause I absolutely love podcasting.
I think it's my favorite medium. I just love it. but there are some seasons when I was building out the academy, I just felt like I was Overwhelmed by all the stuff I had to do. And then trying to get that weekly podcast episode out as well. Yes. Whew.
that was quite tough. So I'm falling back in love with, the process of, Podcasting, I'm going to the podcast show the thing I'm working on a lot really at the moment is I've got another cohort of the coaching. Business Academy starts, April 16th.
Oh, wonderful. And then. We have an alumni group, so we've got three cohorts that are just finished now. we've got, those students are now forming an alumni group and what's lovely about that is that it's almost like a bit of an ideas hub because they all are coming up with suggestions of things that they'd like us all to do as a group.
we're talking summits, we're talking all these big, lovely, great big dreams and ideas. So it's really exciting time actually at the moment. and of course I've always got my eye on retreats and things, I co-host retreats with, my partner Lauren Jones. awesome. Yeah.
Lots of stuff going on.
Erin Austin: I'm gonna make a note here ' cause I wanna go back to something that I forgot I wanted to ask you before, so we'll make sure we cut this together. I wanted to, follow up, your, statement about how you codified what you worked on, into, the,
Yes. Academy. Yeah, we, lemme go back to that.
Gill Moakes: Okay.
Codifying Your Method: How Gill Built Her Coaching Academy
Erin Austin: So when you develop the academy, you mentioned that the journey that you took your one-on-one clients on, and then you use that to see the commonalities in order to develop your academy materials. And so I'm often asked how do I develop, my own materials and,
Maybe someone has been gone through ICF and they are using, resources that they receive from a certification program or somewhere else, and I tell them, look at your clients, That's the benefit of having a niche. When you have your own clients, that you're serving them over and over, you learn.
Know what their pains are, how they're best helped the language that they use. That's the best way to find and create your own materials. Have you found that? Is that how you help your clients as well as they go about Oh my goodness. Signature. My goodness.
Gill Moakes: Absolutely right. That's exactly what I teach in the academy as well.
So we have a module, for example, that is purely on creating a transformation table. So it's, that's about thinking about your client's pain points of where they are now and what their desired state is, as opposed to the pain point they are. So what's the pain point or what's the problem and what is the desired outcome
And how does your coaching form a bridge between the two? So I teach 'em to absolutely, quantify that in a table because if you want to really, dial in your messaging, you are gonna keep coming back to that time and time again. Get as many of those pain points listed as you can down one side and as many desires as you can on the other side.
And each time you are, how can my coaching help them go from one to the other? How can it be the bridge? I think that's absolutely what I teach inside the academy and what I do. The other thing, on the point you just made there is that in, in the Academy, I, one thing I teach is that we must talk to our ideal clients.
Yes. Even if you have never. Worked with a client yet you're fresh out of getting your coaching qualification. If you've never had a paid client, you need to be setting up 15 to 20 calls with ideal clients that aren't sales calls, that are interviews that where you are actually asking questions and really listening to the way they talk about yes, the things they struggle with.
I just think that's so important.
Erin Austin: Especially I mean I found that certainly, 'cause the way I talk about intellectual property is different than the way my clients talk about it. And that has been a journey for me to understand they're not worried about intellectual property.
They're worried about and making sure people don't steal or am I doing anything wrong? and so it's completely different way of talking about. They're worried about than what I'm worried about, Or same thing, but we're coming at it from a different direction.
That is such
Speak Their Language: Messaging Without the Jargon
Gill Moakes: a good point. One of the things I, always I go on about, and I did a podcast about it a little while ago actually, was that as coaches, we can't keep talking in coaches speak. Coaches have a terrible habit of saying things and using phrases like holding space. And stepping into your power and,
That's okay if your clients are other coaches, because that's our own blooming language. We love talking like that. But actually, unless your clients are other coaches, then don't talk about holding space and all of those things because it's too coachy. They need to understand what does that even mean?
coaching is somewhere you and I will have a really good conversation and you'll feel safe enough to be able to tell me what you are really thinking and I'll be able to ask you some good questions that might help you think about it differently. That is understandable. Yes, I'll hold space for you.
is not particularly understandable for anyone other than a coach?
Erin Austin: there's all sorts. corporate speak of I mean, everyone's got their own speak and making sure, as a, founder of your own business, making sure you're speaking the language of your clients. Yeah. it is always a challenge.
Gill Moakes: It's, I have a funny story about that corporate speak. I once started a new job, and on the first day I went into a meeting and this guy kept talking about, yeah, but the thing is, does it wash its own face? Huh? And I'm thinking, I'm looking around like everyone else seems to know what he means and he just go, yeah, it's a good idea, but will it wash its face?
He just kept saying it. and back then I was too timid to be able to go, excuse me, I have no idea what you're talking about. but I remember saying to someone afterwards, what on earth does, why would he keep talking about people washing their faces? And they said, oh, it just means, is it profitable?
What, I was trying to guess. I'm like,
Erin Austin: what could that possibly mean? That's crazy. Okay. I would love to know the origin of that expression, like Ill do that. Even make it into, we'll research it and I'll send it to you
Gill Moakes: afterwards if it, maybe it's a brick thing. I dunno.
Erin Austin: we'll, so as we wrap up.
If you were to give one piece of advice to a new coach, what would it be?
Gill Moakes: Understand your ideal clients better than you understand yourself. That would be the one piece of advice. I would give them is make it about them and the reason for that. ' cause there's always a, so that and the so that is, so that you can craft messaging that your ideal clients understand.
Without having to work for it. Yes. Don't use clever copy. Don't use clever words. Don't use coach speak. Understand your ideal clients so well, and then talk their language back to them in your messaging, and that will make you connect.
Erin Austin: Yes. Clear is better than clever every time. Right?
Gill Moakes: Definitely, definitely.
Erin Austin: thank you so much for this. Please tell everyone where they connect with you, find out more about what you're up to.
Gill Moakes: the platform I use the most is LinkedIn. I'm Jill Moss on LinkedIn. That's G-I-L-L-M-O-A-K-E-S. and my website is jill mos.com. do come and have a little stalk around.
Erin Austin: Yes. lots of wonderful resources there. we'll make sure we have those links in the show notes. And thank you so much, Jill. It's been a pleasure. thank
Gill Moakes: you so much for having me.
Erin Austin: thank you.